Armando (0:00 – 1:05)
Hello, founder. You’ve built a successful business. Now it’s time to think about that once-in-a-lifetime exit from your business.
You’ve come to the right place. Here, you will hear business exit professionals involved in the buying and selling of companies talk about what you should know before you exit. If you’ve never sold a business before, this podcast can be super helpful to you.
I’m Armando, host of the Founder’s Guidepost. Enjoy. But first, a quick disclosure.
Opinions expressed are those of individual professionals. The Founder’s Guidepost is provided by Axiom Founder’s Family Office Inc., a registered investment advisor licensed or exempt from state registration in all states in which it operates. The Scottsdale Founder’s Forum is a biannual live event for the founder considering exiting in the next five years.
More information available at ScottsdaleFoundersForum.com. If you like this information, please subscribe and share. Hi, this is Armando with Axiom Founder’s Family Office in Scottsdale here today with Jessica Holsapple.
Jessica, good morning. How are you?
Jessica (1:06 – 1:07)
Good morning. Fantastic. How are you, Armando?
Armando (1:08 – 2:54)
Doing great, doing great. So Jessica, I’m really excited to have this conversation with you. You work with founders who are looking at an exit of their business and they need to bring in the right people, the right team to help them have that successful exit.
So I’m going to just introduce you here. I got some information off your website that I think is going to be really helpful for that business owner who hasn’t had someone like you before as part of the team. And as they begin to think about that exit, how helpful you can be to them and to their company so that exit looks even better for them and their family.
So let me just read for a second here what I got off your website. You are a next level growth business guide and you’ve hired and trained thousands and led teams of up to 250 people across the U.S. and around the globe. You were tasked with helping struggling locations to help them improve and you were successfully able to turn them around.
Fantastic. And it looks like that’s where you really discovered your love for organizing systems and culture to improve growth. In late 2015, Jessica, you branched out on your own, taking the lessons learned from almost 15 years of leading teams for entrepreneurial organizations and started SCG Consulting Group.
SCG standing for Systems, Culture, and Growth. And you did that performing as an executive coach, as a consultant, and as a fractional COO. So I’m really excited.
Just the experience and that that you bring to the table for that business owner can just be incredible for somebody who hasn’t had somebody like you as part of that exit team. So as I introduced you, are there key parts of that that you want to add that maybe I didn’t put in that introduction?
Jessica (2:55 – 4:46)
Yeah, so bios are always difficult, right? How do you sum up your experience in a few sentences? But essentially I’ve been spending about 15 years just focused on building elite teams inside organizations, specifically around entrepreneurial organizations, which look a lot different than having your standard operating procedures and your training just kind of handed to you.
It’s actually building a company from the ground up and all the fun that’s involved in that. So that’s looked very different over the course of the years and multiple capacities, but it has driven my daily purpose of helping entrepreneurial leaders live more fulfilled lives. And part of that is getting a meaningful return on their investment of the business that they have founded and actually providing a meaningful return on the rest of their life as well.
So what frustrates us is that about half of businesses fail within the first five years of starting. And what that means is the person that put their blood, sweat, tears, and money into their company doesn’t get a return on their investment. And the other half who do get a return on their financial investment often end up sacrificing other parts of their life, their health, their family, their happiness.
So that’s what keeps us up at night at Next Level Growth and that’s why we do what we do here is to help that founder, help those entrepreneurial leaders find fulfillment inside their business and achieve their dreams, whatever that final destination might look like including an exit.
Armando (4:47 – 5:04)
So Jessica, when you start working with a company or companies reach out and they’re not sure, there’s something happening where they’ve decided they need to reach out and talk with somebody. What are those typical things, those reasons why they reach out and why they want to have a conversation with you?
Jessica (5:05 – 7:21)
Yeah, so often entrepreneurial leaders start building and growing really quickly and that takes multiple evolutions throughout five years, 10 years, 20 years or more of having a business. And particularly right now what we’re going to hear across the board is finding talent, right? There’s a lot of theories and discussion points around whether it’s a generational thing or what the case is for why it’s so difficult to find great talent that can kind of hit the ground running when they join an organization.
So anything involving people, so whether it be the performance of people, the accountability of people, the execution of projects on time and on deadline, the retention and turnover, anything like that, people will come to us. Then often when you hit particular thresholds, for instance, a 1 million mark, a 5 million mark, a 10 million mark, a 20 million mark, trying to get to that next level, often there’s a strategic kind of vision and planning that tends to hit a ceiling, if you will. So we can help break through those ceilings as well.
Performance across the board, a standardization of kind of operating procedures so that customers and clients are receiving quality, consistent delivery of the products and services. So anything involving kind of customer satisfaction or client satisfaction or fulfillment, that can kind of be resolved through working with myself or one of my colleagues. And the end all be all is that fuel for your business, which is cash flow and profits.
How do we bring more of it? How do we utilize it inside the business to continue either growing or sustaining or taking that business to the next level? So really it’s a holistic approach to those five key areas in your business.
Armando (7:21 – 7:24)
It sounds like you’re helping that business grow up.
Jessica (7:26 – 7:35)
Yes, just like I’m not a parent, but just what I would imagine raising a kid would be like, right? It requires different needs at different times.
Armando (7:35 – 8:24)
Right. And a family-owned business is like another child. You talk to anybody who has a company who started it from scratch or had it a one of their adult kids who always needs attention and they’ve got to figure out what it needs to bring in the right people to help them and help that company get further along.
So you mentioned people and all about people, teams, performance, accountability, and that. And one thing I was interested in when I read your bio just now that you’ve mentioned to me before is culture. So can you talk about just culture?
How important is that? How does that really have an impact on the business, on the growth, profitability, efficiency, the customer experience? How important is culture in the big picture with that company?
Jessica (8:25 – 10:49)
Yeah. So I’ll start with how I define culture. It’s really the personality of the organization, right?
So it’s how we act around here, if you will. You can think of that as like the culture of your family, for instance, of what’s accepted, what’s tolerated, what are the values and behaviors that are accepted inside the household. And that’s kind of setting the stage for what culture could look like inside your organization.
What culture actually is is how that happens in real time, in real life, if you will. So it’s one thing to say what you want your culture to be, and it’s another to actually feel it, sense it, and attract the people that belong in that culture, if you will. So when you are very crystal clear about the values and behaviors that are not only acceptable but expected inside an organization, and you set that standard, and you’re really clear, and you’re continuously repeating what that looks like, it is going to attract the right players into your team, and it’s going to slowly start to self-select out possibly the wrong people in your team.
It also drives performance, right? Again, when we’re talking about accountability expectations, what we’re focused on at Next Level Growth is we’re interested in working with companies that want to be elite, organizations that want to be elite. So what that means to us is it requires a certain level of discipline and commitment.
In our opinion, most entrepreneurial founders that we talked to didn’t start a business to kind of just be mediocre. They typically had a dream that they were attempting to fulfill, and we’re here to kind of help business owners and their cultures operate like a professional sports team, if you will. A certain set of discipline and expectations, and that happens and evolves over time, and it really is dependent upon the leadership and the consistency of that.
So yeah, culture is a big old thing, but I kind of sum it up by saying it’s the personality of the organization and what’s accepted, tolerated, and expected inside the business.
Armando (10:49 – 11:26)
Okay, so it sounds like you mentioned leadership and management, you know, the team leaders of that organization. It sounds like you probably need to have conversation with them first as the leaders of the organization so that they can then take that personality and make it part of the entire company. How do you help those teams see that or come together in terms of what that personality should be?
What are some things that you come into that maybe are a surprise to the business owners and or leadership that they just didn’t expect till you helped them see that?
Jessica (11:27 – 12:00)
Great question. So often when I am hearing kind of founders that might be at a point of frustration or business owners, typically they’re saying this person this, and this person this, and this person this, but they’re not necessarily able to articulate what exactly it is that they’re kind of disappointed by, if you will. So we’ll take them through a series of exercises that really help extract what your values are.
[Speaker 3] (12:01 – 12:01)
Okay.
Jessica (12:02 – 13:09)
I find that an entrepreneurial-led organization cannot be completely distinct from that founder’s core set of values, but what it can be is influenced by the other leaders that they’ve hand-selected to be a part of their their leadership team, their advisory board, people that are actually executing that vision inside the organization, and so that can all be influenced. So one particular thing that we might do is take a look at the existing players inside the organization and say, what are the qualities about that person that you would like to replicate? How would you like to attract that same level of talent?
What are their particular habits? What are their particular characteristics? And then we can we have a tool that can actually help us assess almost as objectively as possible with empirical data what that kind of a player avatar looks like, if you will.
[Speaker 3] (13:10 – 13:10)
Okay.
Jessica (13:10 – 13:34)
I hope to depersonalize Joe, Bobby, and Sue and say, again, what are the qualities, characteristics, values that we’re looking for in our core team members, and how does that influence how we’re going to perform, what our level of expectations, what behaviors and values are accepted and welcomed into the organization?
Armando (13:35 – 13:35)
Okay.
Jessica (13:36 – 13:36)
That question?
Armando (13:37 – 14:36)
That does. It kind of opens up, as you described that, it makes me think about as that rolls out to the, as you define that avatar for that company, and then you want to attract more people like that avatar, then I imagine that the impact on the company can be seen once maybe the people are a bit more, not cohesive, but once they’re more in tune with each other, and that corporate personality now is there and it’s intact, how does the owner of that business or the leadership team, how do they see the results going forward? You know, once you’ve done that work, and you’ve got that avatar, and now you’re hiring the right people, some people have self-selected themselves out, and so the people who are there are more of the right people for that company.
How does that play out in terms of what the owners see in results and sales, performance, how does that look?
Jessica (14:37 – 18:16)
Great question. So if we’re kind of using that analogy of raising a kid, right, the same could be said about the type of talent that enters your organization at any milestone period of growth for your business. So when you are fully involved, and you’re the operator, the technician, the owner, wearing multiple hats, you’re probably going to bring someone in that can help, that you can start delegating some of those smaller tasks to, that can offload some of that work, that complement your skill set, and that person can kind of help be your right hand, but you’re working really closely together, so there’s this constant communication that’s going on, and often that can feel very natural. What I’ve observed is when I’ve been tasked to help bring in fresh talent for the next phase of growth, for instance, or or solve for a turnover attrition issue, or help bringing that next level of leadership because the organization is now maturing, if you will, I’ve seen over and over again this almost aha moment from the founder, or the CEO, or the owner, that kind of visionary position, if you will, and it’s this, wow, this feels so different because it goes from me telling you what to do as a business owner, business leader, to the person you hired actually has the skill set, the ability, the characteristics, the behavior, the traits to share with you what they’re going to be doing, and it really frees, it frees an owner up to be thinking about the areas where that have helped them become successful so far.
They are more of a, I often see like a business, like a highly skilled sales business development, someone that can really talk about what they do with a lot of passion, and it brings people in to become their clients and customers. So if that’s where they need to be focusing the majority of their time, we need that complementary skill set to be able to alleviate them from the organizational things, from the kind of more mundane tasks, or it might feel more mundane to them, and that person would be someone like my personality type who really actually thrives in like the organizing things and understanding things and doesn’t necessarily want to start things from the ground up, visualize and live in the big picture. So what I see is this, or I get a lot of feedback from my clients is like, this is a whole nother operating thing, and now I have to get used to living in my zone, what I call your zone of brilliance. And so there’s a transition period there, but it’s like, instead of telling, using all your, I sometimes use the term like brain calories, it’s like inserting all these, like the bandwidth of your brain or your brain calories.
Instead of burning all of that, thinking about, I’ve got to think about how to grow the business, and then I’ve got to think about how to put the people and the places and the processes and the systems in place, and then I’ve got to actually help execute it, like that’s that starting point for that founder, owner, operator type. And when you bring in the right person that can clearly see your vision and knows how to execute the rest, it frees up all that time to be able to go do what you do really well. And I hate to say it, but take your business to the next level.
Armando (18:16 – 18:51)
Right, right. No, but that makes a lot of sense. If the owner is spending all his or her time doing those things in the business versus helping to grow the business, being out there, doing what he or she is really, you know, like sitting in their zone of brilliance, then they’re not making the best use of their time.
And it makes a lot more sense that they bring somebody in and get them to have their own inertia, their own energy, and help carry out the goals and vision of the company. I can see how that can really multiply and have an impact.
Jessica (18:52 – 19:47)
Yeah, and you know, often we’re going to do things outside of our comfort zone, which means we’re not the best person to do it either. So if it’s that visionary type or that business development type or that person that can spread the gospel of the organization, they just might not be the best operators, right? So you’re actually kind of poorly doing that job, if you will.
Or I’ve met other entrepreneurs that really enjoy building the systems and processes because they know in and out kind of the technical aspect of what they do, but they don’t love going out and talking about it or marketing it. So finding that next level of talent to be able to bring them in and complement your skill set and really trust that they can guide you in their area of expertise, it’s such a relief to free you up to consistently optimize what you do well.
Armando (19:48 – 20:50)
Okay, it sounds like what you’re doing when you come in to a brand new company that’s new to you, it sounds like what you’re doing is getting an understanding of where are they, what are they missing, what don’t they have, and then helping them to fill in those gaps. So if, in your example, if they need a good sales team or a good sales leader to really help them grow and expand as they want, that you’re helping to identify that or maybe helping them identify that themselves. How does that process roll out when you’re having those conversations with them, Jessica?
Do they already know the answers? How does that roll out with them? Does that make sense what I’m asking?
Thinking of exiting your business? This may be your once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to preserve your American success story. I invite you to come to the Scottsdale Founders Forum, a biannual live event for the founder considering exiting in the next five years.
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Jessica (20:52 – 24:24)
Absolutely, and you’re right on the right path. Typically, they kind of know the answers. I might help them illuminate it, but we have this amazing tool on our website, free resource for anyone.
It’s nextlevelgrowth.com, and there’s a tab that says checkup or business health checkup. It’s 15 minutes, and it’s a self-assessment in those five key areas I talked about. People, purpose, playbooks, performance, profits, and cash flow.
And it is about five to seven questions in each section, and you can rate on a scale of one to five how you feel that you’re performing. To take that a step above, what I’ll do is I’ll have anyone that’s interested in starting a conversation, have the entire executive leadership team, whatever that might look like for your organization. It could be an operations director and the founder and possibly the person that helps with sales, but they’ll take that and we’ll aggregate that data so that we can have a collective business health score.
And that is, again, self-identified. So I’ve, in the past, gone in and kind of made my assessments and been able to see from an outside perspective, almost like an audit, if you will, of a business. But we truly believe that you know best what’s actually happening inside your business, and it can bring to light.
Like, for instance, yesterday I had a group in, and one of the questions is the entire leadership team feels comfortable discussing the brutal facts of the organization, right? The truth, if you will. And there were two people that rated it four and five, which is the higher end of the spectrum, and there was three people that rated it zero and one, right?
So there’s this completely different experience that’s going on amongst that leadership team. So when we can illuminate those types of things and saying, hey, a couple of you feel like you can really discuss these things and a couple of you don’t. So when I have kind of a targeted area that I can zoom in on, that’s where I’m coming in as a facilitator and a coach to, or a guide, excuse me, to be able to say, let’s talk about that.
Let’s talk about that spectrum and where we’re off, you know. So yeah, the business health checkup is a great place to start because that can kind of help illuminate. It’s free, whether you talk to us or not, it gives you a good baseline.
And then what I do with my clients is I use that as our benchmark. So I say, hey, listen, today’s day one. You rated yourself 50 or 60% out of 100.
You know you want to be this elite organization with this high performing team. Is that a 60% or are we trying to achieve that consistent 90 and above? If we’re doing that, then on day one, this is just facts and data and it’s relatively normal for an organization to kind of hit those ceilings and and know that they’re underperforming in particular areas.
And then what we’ll do over the course of time as we’re, as I’m guiding this leadership team to more or less solve their own problems, then we can reassess and look back at that data that is not driven by me, you know, it is actually driven by you of saying, where are you at? We started at 60%. Now we’ve gotten to 70%.
Celebrate those small wins until we increase that performance in across all five areas.
Armando (24:25 – 25:08)
Okay. So can you talk about the, when someone brings you on board and let’s say they’ve had nobody like Jessica before in the company, they’ve gotten to a certain point, they’ve got some, you know, they’ve got some customers and revenues and that, they’ve got people on board and now they realize they need some help. And you come in, you have a conversation with them.
And again, they’ve not had somebody like you on board yet. So they’re not really sure what to expect. Not really sure how you can help them.
Can you just walk through, what does that look like for them? You know, on day one, you have some kind of a dialogue and then maybe you have a, you know, 30 day, 60 day, 90 day, whatever that, but how does that, how does that look like for them? And what, what should they expect just over a timeframe, a timeline?
What does that look like for them?
Jessica (25:09 – 27:07)
Yeah. So first, you know, always encourage them to take that business health checkup so that they have a benchmark and it helps our dialogue and our conversation and a starting point of where are the key areas in the business that are, need the most attention? And what does that priority look like?
And what’s on the horizon? What are your potential goals? And sometimes the business owner doesn’t exactly know what that looks like because there’s so many options out there.
So I can help them get some clarity around that, but that also can evolve over time, just like their businesses evolved over time. So I’ll start with kind of like where our model, our approach is particularly helpful. And there’s a particular threshold that we find is really where bringing in a guide like us can be most beneficial.
And that’s that 5 million or more mark. That’s when your company starts maturing and is kind of said, okay, we’ve used all the tools and expertise that we have to get us this far, which is huge by the way, like building a company to 5 million is a, is a something to celebrate for sure. And then they typically have about 20 or more employees.
Again, that’s where some of the hierarchy needs to come in or some of that multiple level accountability, if you will, multiple level leadership. So that would be kind of the starting point, but we also work with companies that are up to 800 million in revenue. So, and I have a few clients that are sitting around one or two, however, they make a perfect fit because they are committed and driven and they know exactly pretty clearly what they want and they’re ready to make that commitment.
And so, you know, all we’re doing is bringing in the tools to help them mature and go on that journey.
Armando (27:07 – 27:20)
And so Jessica, those who are in that one or two mil range, are they, you said they’re committed, are they pretty, pretty committed to, to growths where they will be at that 5 million mark and beyond? And that’s, that’s their target?
Jessica (27:21 – 30:07)
Yeah, absolutely. So they typically have what we’ll, what we’ll focus on, not focus on, we will set a vision for so we use a climbing analogy at next level growth. So we believe that building a business is a lot like climbing mountain.
There are certain peaks and valleys, if you will, and we’re trying to reach a particular summit or top of the mountain. So we help define what that top of the mountain looks like, whether that’s a five to 25 year plan. Sometimes that is scaling it up to a hundred million or more.
And sometimes that is getting a particular threshold and then just being the best in their market. So we’ll help people find that, knowing where we’re going is, is important because that’s going to influence our decisions. But the journey, which you had asked about what is actually, so the leadership team will come in and make a decision together, whether the next level growth approach feels like the right fit for them, given the information I’ve provided, and whether me as a guide feels like the right fit for the team, right?
It’s got to be, it’s got to be the right fit all the way around. We’re on a long-term journey together. I particularly like to have fun in what we do.
I love business. I think every founder didn’t start off on this journey because they don’t get some excitement out of it. So not that there won’t be difficult conversations or challenges that we’ll have to resolve making decisions along the way, but I do like to make it fun.
So I want to make sure it’s a good mutual fit. And I don’t believe that solely having the one CEO or founder make that decision is in the best interest of the company, because there’s multiple perspectives, just like I shared with that team that had zeros and fives, right? So if we can have that discussion together, then we can see if we’re introducing tools and an approach to help run your business, is there any pushback or is everyone going to be bought in on this journey?
Because it does require a level of commitment from everyone that’s going to be leading from the top, if you will. Once they’ve made the commitment to go on the journey together, then we do what we call base camp, which is three full-day sessions where we’re laying the foundation. Again, we’re kind of introducing some things.
My job as a business guide is to be a facilitator, to provide some context, and be a trainer or teacher, to be a coach when we get in kind of the weeds a little bit and I need to help pull you out. And then, you know, if I can provide particular expertise based on my background or other experiences I’ve had, then you could pull me in as a consultant and I can actually guide you, particularly around the people performance aspect, if you will.
[Speaker 3] (30:07 – 30:07)
Okay.
Jessica (30:07 – 30:51)
And we also think of our next level growth as a community of entrepreneurial leaders. So it’s almost like being a member of an elite club, kind of like a founders forum club, if you will, where we’re on this relentless journey. All of these exceptional companies doing exceptional and elite things.
So we have best practices and tools and templates and lots of resources we can pull from that I’ve worked for other organizations and share those as options for the team. So after you graduate base camp, you’ve laid the foundation, you’ve got some practice under your belt, you’ve been doing the drills, you’ve more or less, you know, tried out and made that…
Armando (30:51 – 30:53)
You made the team.
Jessica (30:53 – 31:59)
You made the team, you’re running the plays, you’re seeing what’s working, what’s not working. Then we’ll meet on a roughly 90 day or quarterly cadence to reinforce, to come back together as a leadership team with the resource of having me guide that entire discussion of saying what’s been working, what’s not been working, where do we need to up the challenge. We’ll actually set some goals, milestones, projects, action items.
We’ll get commitment. We’ll hold… The team will hold each other accountable for the commitments that they’ve made inside the organization.
And what makes us unique at Next Level Growth is we’re also roped in with you for the entire journey. So we might meet for a full session day on a Tuesday and the following week, someone’s like, hey, I committed to this project, but I’m not exactly sure where to start. They might reach out and I can guide them through.
That’s where I can introduce some tools. I can go through some coaching with them if necessary. But they have full access to me and my resources throughout the entire journey.
Armando (32:00 – 32:12)
So if they get lost a little bit along the way, you’re available to… So they don’t waste time spinning their wheels. They can get on track if they get off track a little bit faster.
Jessica (32:12 – 34:42)
That’s exactly right. I work with a select number of clients at any given time. And that’s because I really want to be able to provide the attention and give the support on an as-needed basis.
And I love developing close relationships with my clients so I can make myself available to them if I’m being selective of making sure that we have a mutually good fit. And that can look different throughout the journey. Then we have a two-day annual summit.
So that’s where we come together. It doesn’t necessarily need to be at the end of the year or the first quarter of the new year or the fiscal year. It’s the best time for the leaders to come together for more of that team health.
So we’ve already been kind of implementing the foundation and kind of the drumbeat for the organization. And they’re introducing things, resolving things. And then that annual summit is really about continuously strengthening that relationship for the executive team.
And again, just as your business goes through multiple journeys, you as a team go through multiple levels of your journey in how you collaborate and work together. So we do some fun stuff around that. And we don’t believe in defining the timeline for a commitment of working with us.
Again, we want it to be a mutually good fit. So that journey for some people looks like about 24 months to get them to the next level. And perhaps that’s part of the exit or whatever their kind of end goal is.
And then we have companies that are with us seven to eight years. And they’ve gone through multiple mergers, acquisitions, transition in the leadership team because they’ve kind of up-leveled it from each big milestone, if you will. Or we have a team that went from 100 to 1,000 over the course of seven years.
And that leadership team turned over from time to time. And the one consistent there was their business guide had been with them from the entire journey. So you can imagine kind of having that cohesion and that kind of legacy understanding of where the organization has been and where they’re going, what they’re trying to do, and unique challenges that they had to solve along the way.
There’s some continuity in having that business guide guide that entire journey. So as long as they’re getting value from us and it’s a mutually good fit, that’s how long we’ll climb together.
Armando (34:43 – 34:59)
Yeah. Yeah. You’re providing the institutional knowledge that maybe they might lose sight of because of all the changes.
But you’re helping to keep that trajectory on the trajectory they want by providing that stability from the outside, it sounds like.
Jessica (34:59 – 35:00)
That’s absolutely right.
Armando (35:01 – 35:20)
Wow. Fantastic. So what are some of the, are there surprises that you hear from people after they’ve worked with you, say, for a year or two and they start to see what, you know, the improvements in that?
What are some of the common comments that you hear from them or some of the common observations that they share with you?
Jessica (35:21 – 36:28)
Yeah. First thing that came to mind when you asked that question was it’s almost like the reading of the body language. So when people come in, whether they’re trying to make a decision of are they going to an exit or are they going to scale the heck out of this company or are they just trying to sustain and kind of get themselves back to where they were, you know, pre whatever scenario happened inside the organization or in their lives.
And so often you can imagine that they’re kind of like tense and I’m at a frustration point, I’m at a confusion point, I’m at an overwhelm point. And once that rhythm starts happening, it’s this kind of, another thing observed is when the CEO can go from top down leadership and really almost driving those conversations and those meetings, there’s this other like kind of relaxed, they get to be an observer.
[Speaker 3] (36:29 – 36:29)
Okay.
Jessica (36:30 – 39:00)
Fitness and influence decisions, which you can imagine if they wanted to spend a good portion of their time doing other things, they can view their company like a dashboard. Imagine how powerful that is. So I often, I’ve had founders I work with that might have second homes in Hawaii, for instance, and they’re like, I would just rather be running my business from the beach.
He literally can do that because they can see their business as a dashboard. So they know where the key numbers are in the business, where the projects, are they on track, off track? Does someone need help with those?
Are they approaching any deadlines that are in jeopardy of not getting completed? What’s their vision and their strategic plan from a one-year standpoint to a three-year standpoint to a five or beyond standpoint? And that way they can divide their time of the day by checking in with those key decision makers on their team in those key areas versus having to be involved or call a meeting as and when or being reactive.
So there is a lot of almost settling in to this different observation point inside their organization is to be a really fun place for them because entrepreneurs tend to be problem solvers. But if you’re always just putting out fires, you are playing not to lose versus playing to win. It’s a whole different mindset, right?
So yeah, I often see a lot of relaxed faces and excitement and renewed energy because it’s this optimism of saying, look at all these things that we’re seeing the small wins over and over. So it seems like that big, hairy, audacious goal, not my words, those are Jim Collins from Good to Great. We’re seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, if you will.
So it gets to be a more enjoyable part of the business versus putting out fires, telling people what to do, trying to think strategically as well as day-to-day in the weeds so they can rise above and work on the organization instead of in it.
Armando (39:01 – 40:07)
And Jessica, I liked how you started that. You said, wherever the company is, they’re at some point with their business. Do they want to scale it up, keep it where it is, make it efficient, keep it where it is?
Do they want to sell it? They’re helping them decide what do they want and then helping them to get that. Whatever they decide, if it’s their company, they can decide what they want to do with it.
I met a business owner recently who was exactly at that point where the company is worth something and their question, the conversation we had with them was they didn’t know if they just wanted to sell it now, begin to sell it now, or did they have the, I forgot words he used, but it was something to the effect of, do I have it in me to give it say 24 months to just push it hard 24 months and get it to a different place and increase that value and then sell it?
So they weren’t really sure what they wanted to do and it sounds like for that kind of business owner, you could certainly help them talk through that and then they might be able to answer their own question with your help.
Jessica (40:09 – 41:40)
Yeah, and I know what you do when you’re meeting with founders, you’re talking about a lot of the things that they might not even be ready to share with me or maybe I’m not the right person to answer those questions. Like for instance, what type of legacy do you want to leave for your family? What type of financial security do you want to have?
Of course, I’ll go there to determine, help them paint the picture of what their life could look like if you will, but you brought something up that I’ve heard over and over is, do I have it in me to just hit the ground running for 24 more months to get this where I knew it could be? And I’ll almost always pose the question, how many times have you asked yourself that question and how many times have you revved that engine and got to 24 months and then completely burned out that engine and had to replace the engine and ask yourself that question over and over again, particularly if you’ve had the business 10 or 20 years, you’ve probably gone through multiple iterations of that because again, there’s peaks and valleys into growing a business.
So, it would be great to speak to someone like you or anyone in our Scottsdale Founder Forum community to kind of help uncover some of those things. But when they’re coming to me, and we’re presented with a few options, what I’m going to introduce is, you might not even know what it could look like to effectively, efficiently run your business in a different way than you’ve done it before.
Armando (41:40 – 41:52)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So that dashboard you mentioned, if they could be running it from the dashboard perspective, maybe they didn’t really want to get out of the business if they could get to that place.
Jessica (41:52 – 43:56)
Right, or it at least gives them a clearer perspective with better improved options. The business is inevitably going to be more financially sound when it’s operating and performing well. Your health, happiness, and your quote-unquote work-life balance is going to be in a better position.
You have options to potentially pass that down to the next generation because you have the sustainable, well-run business that’s actually something that could turn into a viable career option for the next generation. Or you’re in a much better position to sell a more profitable business with a turnkey solution for an investor. So the options become more clear and we set a target.
It doesn’t mean that we can’t change that target as things become more and more clear, but we just do version one, then we do version two, then we do version three as needed. But again, your whole sense around what your business is is a lot different when you’re at this place where you’re like, I’m kind of bleeding money and I might need to just jump ship right now. I might have a few more months if I can in six months look at my business more like a dashboard and less like a, you know, stressed out entrepreneur if you will.
And then in that period where you’re freed up with the time, then you could speak to, you know, a family practice like a family office like yours or the multiple investors that are potentially available to talk to. You can go have those conversations on the side because you actually have the time bandwidth and a clear perspective of, you’re in the driver’s seat at that point, right? When you have a healthfully run business from all aspects, you’re in a much better position where you’re not as reactive and kind of trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater if you will.
Armando (43:56 – 44:14)
And it sounds like at that point they would have the most options, whereas maybe on day one they only have a couple of choices because of where they are. But with some time and effort and some guidance, they might end up with a lot more options and then they can choose whatever is the best fit for them, for their family at that point in time.
Jessica (44:14 – 44:15)
Exactly right.
Armando (44:16 – 44:28)
Yeah, what an empowering position to be in after they’ve gone through your, you know, with your help and guidance where they can get to that point and then, you know, maybe stand on top of that mountain, look around, decide, huh, now what?
Jessica (44:30 – 45:31)
Me and my colleagues, the other business guides with Next Level Growth, we all know what it’s like to start a business. That’s looked different for each one of us. But what I can tell you is none of us got that far to get this far, if you will, right?
We didn’t sacrifice a large portion of our life doing something we’re particularly passionate about just to stop and kind of break even or, you know, have a job versus a business, right? So we know that level of personal investment that’s gone into it and we believe that every founder deserves a meaningful return on their life. And so that’s not just their financial investment.
It’s really about, you know, providing options and, of course, getting a return on their financial investment, but also getting a return on all those blood, sweat, you know, the equity, I think it’s called.
[Speaker 3] (45:31 – 45:31)
Yeah.
Jessica (45:32 – 45:56)
So, yeah, we want to present those options because there’s so many out there, but we believe that you did, like, you got the business to where it is, you know, a five million or more mark, if you will. You did a lot of things, right? Let’s just help you get to that next level so that you can see more clearly what an elite organization, how that’s ran and what that feels like.
Armando (45:57 – 46:39)
Yeah. And with your experience, I can see how you could be extremely helpful to a business owner in a leadership team because you’ve seen different companies along the way and help make those improves, been part of that. You’ve been on probably on both sides of that, of that, you know, mission that all that energy going in that same direction, but you can certainly share that experience and help people and really see where they are and probably do some, I want to say empathize with them, but because of that, being able to empathize with them, you can see their perspective and help them navigate that and get through it, whatever that challenge might be.
Jessica (46:39 – 47:51)
Yeah. And that is, you know, another unique thing about next level growth is we’ve all been in that founder owner or, and, or operator position from a C-suite level. We’ve been through the frustrations, we’ve been through the challenges, we’ve been through the personality dynamics, we’ve been through the tough decisions and the pivots and what happens when the economy tanks and how do we change the strategy.
We’ve been, you know, my, Michael Erath, the founder of next level growth. He wrote a book called Rise, the reincarnation of an entrepreneur. So he took over his family business and took it from, I believe it was 20 million to 45 million.
So you can imagine that’s of course a huge thing and it was a family business, right? So I need not say what’s involved in that, I’m sure. And he shares a story of, you know, he got to this, he was able to run his organization so kind of efficiently with the processes and, and being profitable that he kind of took his eyes off of it.
And what happened when he did that was a troubling scenario where one of his partners took advantage of him.
[Speaker 4] (47:51 – 47:51)
Oh no.
Jessica (47:52 – 47:54)
Ended up losing everything.
[Speaker 4] (47:54 – 47:55)
Oh no.
Jessica (47:56 – 49:13)
And during the housing crash. So he’s, he’s actually not only built it up, scaled, lost everything, but he’s built it up again, building next level growth and the other ventures he’s been a part of. So, you know, and I’ve, I’ve been through that other side of that where it’s been on the operator’s side or the, you know, operations director or chief operating officer, where it’s, I am the other side of the coin of that really fast-paced entrepreneur that has these huge goals that we could never even imagine.
And then I figure out how to implement them and manage the things inside the business while also managing that entrepreneurial spirit in a way that continues to stroke the fire, if you will, of all that brilliance that comes in while sustaining it with everything else. And that’s looked a number of different ways for me and has been epically fun and of course comes with its challenges. But yeah, we’re all speaking from a first-person perspective and we’ve, we’ve more or less been where you are as a founder.
And we can speak to our experience to see if that can help illuminate any, any other options or different perspectives of how to, how to work and overcome those challenges.
Armando (49:14 – 49:22)
Yeah. And those challenges can sometimes teach us more and those failures teach us more than, than many other areas that we, that we go through.
Jessica (49:22 – 49:49)
There’s no doubt. I, I often talk about the difference between intelligence and wisdom. So at one point in early in my career, I might’ve been one of the smarter people in the room.
So I thought, right, because I had all this like passion and ambition and then I read things and studied things. It’s not the same as wisdom. Wisdom comes from failure and experiences and saying, I’ve literally done that and I did it wrong.
And here’s what I learned from it.
[Speaker 3] (49:49 – 49:49)
Yeah.
Jessica (49:49 – 50:24)
That unique perspective can not only, you know, provide guidance and options, but it’s also like you were saying that empathy portion of going, dang it, if I don’t understand literally what it feels like to have those challenges, stay up at night, pulling my hair out as an operator, I don’t know how to overcome these things that keep facing me. Right. So yeah, that, yeah, certainly the wisdom coming from failures is something that we can all bring to the table as well.
Armando (50:25 – 50:42)
Yeah. So Jessica, are there certain industries that, that, that you, that you specialize in or industries that you just see, you know, when you’re in that space with an industry, you just, you just, it’s more exciting for you or, or you’re, you’re more impactful for that business owner?
Jessica (50:43 – 50:58)
Great question. So short answer is industry agnostic. Longer answer is where we see it be most successful is one, all of our clients are growth minded and, and, and openness is a, is a part of this.
[Speaker 3] (50:58 – 50:58)
Okay.
Jessica (50:59 – 52:10)
Worked with lots of founders that it’s their way or the highway, no matter what type of perspective we could potentially provide. They more or less weren’t accepting of the information and that’s just not going to be mutually beneficial for anyone. Then companies that are really, like I said, kind of looking to grow, but I have clients in financial services and if they’re committed to the journey and you know, there’s a different perspective and swing, swing on things that we might do versus a hospitality group or construction group or healthcare group, we’re going to sprinkle in different flavor, if you will.
But our approach works for any business that is really trying to build an elite team and they’re willing to dedicate and do what it takes to get it right, if you will. And come to the table, literally meaning like meeting with us, come to the table, put it all out there and solve, solve problems together to help them get to the next level.
Armando (52:10 – 54:02)
Okay. So here in Metro Phoenix, we, we we’ve just grown so fast and there’s so many, I’d say mom and pop is an old term, but really, you know, businesses that, that grew from, you know, one person or a couple that started them years ago. Now these companies have been around for 20, 30, maybe 40 years.
And many would like to, of course, transition that company to the next generation that often the next generation doesn’t really want it. But you know, private equity is always out there hovering to buy good companies. So for a company that say has been around 30 years, that is now realizing they’ve got to do something because the reality is we all die.
And if, you know, when the owner dies, if something hasn’t been done, then what happens to that company? So they have to plan for it in advance and maybe have a conversation with someone like you about, about, you know, just helping them figure out, men, you know, where, where is their mind now and with this company, what can they do with this company? So I imagine that that comes up with the owners as you’re talking with them, but here in PetroPhoenix, it seems that we have so many small businesses that have grown up and really become really nice, great companies, potential buyout targets or takeover targets or merger targets that I would think that, that when you’re talking with some of these, these companies like that, where does that conversation usually go? How does that conversation usually, when you talk with them for the first time, or they talk with you for the first time and they don’t even know, you know, what their options are or what they should do, does it all begin with that assessment you mentioned that’s, that’s online at your websites? Does that be the ideal starting point?
Jessica (54:02 – 57:24)
Yeah. And it can look a different way. You know, we’re going to meet you where you’re at.
This journey is a long and an up and down as you know, right? And depends what’s going on in your personal life that is influencing why you’re even kind of looking for options, right? So business health checkup online on our website, nextlevelgrowth.com is a great place to start just to kind of go, I’m going to take 15 to 30 minutes to answer these questions thoughtfully and get an unbiased perspective on an assessment of where my business is at. I might also say, Hey, while you’re having a conversation with me and entertaining the idea of really putting the right systems inside your business to make it run efficiently, effectively, and help it grow and optimize it, if you will, you might also want to talk to someone else in, in my, my circle, for instance, you or some business brokers that are more or less going to give the same kind of advice, if you will. There’s going to be some type of financial audit inside your business and preparation involved in that, which typically can take three or more years to exit a business.
So you have to start now, if you will, whether you’re interested or not. And there’s some, for most businesses, there’s some like kind of backlogging of what that might look like. You can also, at the same time, run your business so that it’s not running you, if you will.
Right, better options for those that exit. I also am a huge reader and a book that I love just to, if you don’t want to hear it from me, there’s a book called built to sell by John Warrillow. And essentially it’s just, it is what it sounds like, regardless of whether you’re going to sell your business, you should build it as if you’re going to sell it because that’s where the options come from.
You could pass it down to the next generation, or you could at least offer it to them as a viable option versus like real estate that you’re going to have to demolish and start over. That doesn’t sound attractive to a lot of people. Or it’s going to be this legacy you can leave for your family or retire healthfully.
Either way, it’s going to provide you options and it’s going to be more enjoyable to run your business that way. So the book’s called built to book. But yeah, I’m always here to listen and explore options with anyone.
And that doesn’t always look like working with me if it doesn’t feel like the right fit. I recently spoke with the founder who has been chewing on working with next level growth for several years, going back and forth and kind of encouraged him just to make a decision one way or the other to move your life forward, if you will. And he had expressed that he had already been in talks with kind of selling the business.
So he’s more or less going in that direction. If you’re fully involved and invested in keeping it where it’s at and exiting now, I will happily be a resource and introduce you to a few qualified firms that we can attest to if that seems like a better option.
Armando (57:24 – 58:33)
Yeah. And I like that you referred to a book about being ready to sell that in order for that company to really sell and get a premium, get a good price for it, it has to be ready. It’s got to be nice and neat and clean and professional so that the new buyer stepping in, whether it’s the next generation or somebody completely from the outside, that it is a good, viable, strong business that can and will go forward.
Otherwise, you’re just not going to get the price for it. And people don’t generally want to leave something in shambles, they want to leave it in nice, you know, tip top condition, because that’s also a sense of pride that they’ve built something that they can be very proud of, and then do something with but it really sounds like with the work that you do, wherever that business is, even having a conversation with you, about where they are, that’s what the owner you just referenced, where he decided, well, it’s time to sell. Okay, great. Well, it might have been having some conversation that helped him realize that that is what he wanted to do, or was the best thing for him or her.
Jessica (58:34 – 1:01:01)
Yeah. And as business owners begin these discussions, whether it’s with consultants or a business guide like myself, or attorney business brokers or attorneys, there’s so much information, and it can feel very overwhelmed because if I’m saying, you know, implement the systems and the people, it feels like, well, if I know I’m going to sell my house, why am I going to make invest all this money and time and energy into something I’m going to sell. But it’s not as complicated as it sounds with the right guidance, right? Because we’ve all been there.
So the attorneys are the experienced attorneys know how to run that system and process so that your business kind of fits into their guidance, just like your business fits into the type of guidance I do, the type of guidance you do. You’re here, I know that our community is here to be resources for making these decisions, not to make them for you, but to help provide information so that you can make an informed decision and help decipher what is a seemingly messy, complicated, complex thing of building, scaling, growing, exiting, passing on to the next generation business. There are so many decisions to make.
We’re all here just to say, listen, with our guidance, it’s a lot easier. And it’s not as complicated as you think if you just get started. The first step is always starting a conversation.
And I know me, you and the other folks in our community, we’re genuinely here to help. We’re looking to force anyone to do business with us. I think we genuinely care and we believe pointing you in the right direction.
So if that’s not working with me or next level growth, and it’s having a conversation with Axiom, we want you to be happy. Again, it all goes back to my daily purpose of helping entrepreneurs and founders earn a meaningful return on their life. And that looks different for every person.
So yeah, we’re a wealth of resources wherever you look, and the right decision will feel natural to you. And the best part is, is you could pivot at any time should you want to, but you’ll be more informed and have better options if you just get started.
Armando (1:01:01 – 1:01:29)
Right. Yeah. And it’s got a few, I like how you started when we began this conversation, you mentioned about sometimes people get too heavily focused in one area.
Maybe it’s their career or the business, and there’s a sacrifice that’s given. Maybe it’s, you know, on the family side or something else. And they’re keeping that balance so that the person really gets what they want without unknowingly sacrificing things that really matter to them.
Jessica (1:01:30 – 1:02:32)
Yeah. Like I said, me and my colleagues, we’ve all been at different points of this journey and different seats, if you will, of this journey. But we can all attest that we’ve done a lot of soul searching, just like to determine what feels right to us and what is our focus.
I feel like this is, you know, kind of my calling in life, if you will. It can be a lot of exploration. And you know, my career, of course, has taken dips and turns just like everyone else’s.
And it took that thoughtful time, the right information, the right guidance to help get me on a path that feels like I’m serving every aspect of my life. And I genuinely just want that for everyone. I think it’s possible for everyone.
So, you know, everyone’s at a different place in their journey. We’re just here to meet you, help you, help guide you to get you to that next step. And the rest becomes obvious as you get started and as you move in the right direction and kind of alignment with your goals and what you want personally.
Armando (1:02:32 – 1:02:50)
So Jessica, what is most gratifying to you about the work that you do? You get involved in such a variety with the business and the owners, the management team, I’m sure the family that owns the company as well. What is most gratifying to you that you just love?
Jessica (1:02:51 – 1:05:46)
Yeah, I joke that I was a cheerleader growing up and I didn’t make it when I joined high school. I didn’t make the team. And so I have this like kind of inner cheerleader in me that’s always trying to get out.
But that’s the best when we click, when this team kind of like maybe feeling a little adversarial about everybody’s on different sides of the fence of how to approach a particular decision. And when it starts clicking and I’m literally like a high five, a fist bump, like a hug if it’s appropriate, I feel like I’m a part of that winning team. So if you’ve ever been on a winning team, whether it’s in sports or, you know, I don’t have a better analogy, there’s literally nothing like that rush of going, I worked my butt off to do the right things to win the game, if you will.
And I get to celebrate with teammates. I don’t know a better feeling than that. So I am fully invested in the teams that I work with.
I it’s, you know, I’m celebrating the wins just as if I was involved. And every time I’ve been on a team that’s overcome huge hurdles, like the lighting of the faces and the high fives, especially when you know that you did the right things, and it wasn’t easy. It didn’t come necessarily easy, but you did the right things to celebrate.
You know, the quote is, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And again, there’s nothing like celebrating with your teammates.
That happens to us almost on a daily basis here at Next Level Growth. We operate fairly independently, but we celebrate our wins together. And we also structure our operations in the same journey that we guide our clients through.
So we meet quarterly, we discuss our challenges, we help each other overcome hurdles, we celebrate our wins together. And then we laugh and we have fun. And we have difficult conversations, too.
So we’re going through the same journey that our clients are going through. And so, you know, there’s literally nothing like someone picking their head in and going, high five, Jess, that was rad, what, you know, the feedback we got, or, hey, take a look at our Google reviews, we have five star Google reviews of really happy clients, because sometimes we can get on our own perspective, right? See, the macro of it is so fun.
So that’s the most rewarding for me is like literally feeling like I’m a, you know, I’m a cheerleader from the outside and rah-rahing everyone on. But to feel a part of it and celebrate those wins together is really exciting, because I just know that feeling firsthand.
Armando (1:05:47 – 1:08:20)
Wow, fantastic. So let me just go through a couple of things. I’ve been making some notes on my yellow pad here, which is my blank slate just to keep some notes.
And you mentioned a lot of things. You talked about culture and values. You talked about the company having its own personality, and really different by the behaviors that the people express that really are the personality of that company.
And helping people maybe self-select, are they part of that company and that culture, or are they not? You also mentioned elite entrepreneurial organizations, which I think you compared to maybe the one who wins the NBA championship or something, but really elite entrepreneurial teams, not just somebody who’s, you know, mediocre or in the range, but in there. You also mentioned someone of brilliance, where maybe they’re all functioning in that space and having the best outcome they can together as a team.
You talked about helping to extract the values that people have, the core values, and that the company’s values really don’t get far from that. They stay within that core value of the ownership and leadership team. You said that typically your clients have got maybe about a five million dollar threshold of revenue, maybe 20 plus employees, some multi-level and leadership, but you’ve got some that are even below that, but they’re committed to getting to those hurdles and beyond, and they just committed their time, their resources, and committed to you that that’s where they want to go, and that’s where it can make sense for you to work with them as well. I like what you mentioned too about the dashboard, where maybe from your second home in Hawaii, if you have that dashboard on your computer, you can see how the business is running that day and where it might need your attention that day, if it needs your attention at all that day, but having that dashboard to help that owner really run that business and not have to be day-to-day putting out fires and problem solving, but sitting back, still being the owner, but having a dashboard that makes sense given that business and what they’re trying to accomplish.
You talked about that business health checkup. Again, one more time, I know you’ve mentioned this, but if somebody wants to go through and do that business health checkup you mentioned, what is that website again where they would go, and once they get there, is it pretty apparent where they see a button they can click on it and do it?
Jessica (1:08:21 – 1:09:04)
Yeah, so it’s nextlevelgrowth.com, and you will be prompted, or there’ll be a tab or some sort of call to action button that will say take our business health checkup should you want to. I’m also informing you’re not part of any spam kind of email campaign. We don’t believe in that.
You can, when you complete the self-assessment, you can also click on the drop-down list and select me as a guide to start a conversation or directly to start a conversation just to ask some generic questions. It always just helps to get that, to help clarity from your perspective to take the business health checkup, and it enriches our conversation if I have that information in front of me as well.
Armando (1:09:04 – 1:09:13)
Good, and then Jessica, if somebody has listened to this and thought they really want to get a hold of you and talk with you, what is the best way for them to reach out and connect with you?
Jessica (1:09:14 – 1:10:22)
Yeah, a few options. One is the one I just mentioned, going on our website and either just filling out the form to start a conversation or taking the business health checkup and selecting me as your guide. I’ll get the results.
We’ll have something to talk about, or you could reach out directly at Jessica at nextlevelgrowth.com, or you could find me on LinkedIn. I’m one of the few Jessica Holsapple, I’m sure, and I’m the one that looks like me. It’s H-O-L-S-E-P-P-L-E.
Yeah, and as you were kind of reflecting back our conversation, it reminded me of a quote from Steve Jobs, and I’ll loosely translate it, but he essentially said people aren’t used to an environment where excellence is expected via yardstick of quality. So you as the founder are setting the standard, and your leadership team is setting the standard of what the expectations are, and if you’re consistently keeping your eyeballs on what that performance standard should look like and what you’re trying to achieve, accountability can kind of self-implement at other levels because everyone knows what’s expected of them.
Armando (1:10:22 – 1:10:47)
Fantastic. Jessica, thank you so much for the conversation. Really appreciate it, and hopefully the business owner who really needs your help is going to listen to this, and he or she will give you a call and just begin the conversation, maybe through the business health checkup on your website with a request to ask you to help select you as their guide.
But again, thank you so much for the conversation. Really enjoyed the conversation with you today.
Jessica (1:10:47 – 1:10:49)
Yes, thank you so much, Armando. Appreciate it.
Armando (1:10:50 – 1:11:21)
Excellent. Thinking of exiting your business, you may have only one chance to get the sale right. Your family depends on it.
Come hear experts who plan and negotiate successful business exits for a living. Bring your questions. Live panel discussion followed by Q&A.
Join us Thursday, April 27, 2023 at the next Scottsdale Founders Forum, a biannual live event for the founder considering exiting in the next five years. More information available at Scottsdalefoundersforum.com.
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